Curse

Amnon · Jul 13, 2005, 06:13 PM // 18:13

I spent 2 hours today trying to find a group for Fissure or HoH (Moving back and forth between districts, even international ones), and nada. And it's not because I'm some type of "n00b" or simply suck at the game (I don't), it's because of my class.

The way I see it, Guild Wars can advertise itself as having only 5 (4?) classes, because Necromancers (And sometimes mesmers, but mainly necros) are treated by the community like air, only if you take someone's air away they'll complain but not if you deprive them of a good necromancer.

My necromancer is my main character - I've built it from the ground up in PvE, and I have great tactics and skills with this character; I can restore the monks' energy, hex monks so they can't heal, and still do a lot of damage (163 with 2 spells, not to mention it's lifesteal). If it were me against an Elementalist, I'm pretty sure I'd win.

Why is it, then, that people would rather have an elementalist (I'm not talking about spike groups, those I can understand) and NEVER EVER pick a necromancer unless they MUUUUST have well of power around? I mean I've spent HOURS searching for groups with not a shred of luck - I hardly even get blind-invited!

I will not create a new PvP char for HoH because I can only choose from templates or be forced to unlock the skills first - So unless I want to make my build the exact same thing with PvP items and maybe switch my class around, it gets me nowhere (And the templates... come on, only 1, maybe 2 if you count paladin, are any good).

I've tried creating a new PvE character, but I find it sooooo extremely boring doing the same quests all over again, and I can't bring myself to do more than 2 a day.

So my rant is, and yes, I know it's a rant but it's REALLY seriously bothering me and taking out ALL the fun of playing this otherwise great game: Either improve necromancers to the point where people would want to have them along as much as an elementalist or a warrior, create some super all-necro build that would kick ranger groups' @$$es, or give the ability to change primary class or something (Though I seriously doubt that'd be a good idea).

The game is becoming a real frown-fest for me every time I try to find a group.

crazy diamond · Jul 13, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

People who don't pick a Necro just because of its class are idiots. I can't remember the number of times a well-built, well-played necro made all the difference.

One of my favorite stories is always about how one necro soloed the last part of the Dunes mission after the entire team wiped out, and finished the mission for us all by himself.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 13, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Amnon you should try and find a guild or a group of people who like to run the UW/Fissure alot and stick with them. I can't help but notice that almost every man and his dog out there has a cape. Yet they still can't find people to play with. Obviously most of the guilds out there aren't that well organised.
Drop me a line some time in game if you belive people are being unjustly biased to your class. I'll send you a private tell. I'm always looking for new combinations in our builds for the tombs. I'd love to run the Uw/Fissure with some interesting combinations as well.

Aracos79 · Jul 13, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

I thought making a Me/N would be fun. Spam some curses, disrupt the hex removal... basically frustrate the crap out of people. Sounded good... except the only person getting frustrated, is me. No one will invite me to a group, ever. The only way I can get into a group is to be annoying and invite myself anytime I see a group looking for more members. It's like I'm a leper or something. Please folks... broaden your horizons. A good mesmer or necro can make all the difference in a mission going smoothly.

crazy diamond · Jul 13, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

Amnon you should try and find a guild or a group of people who like to run the UW/Fissure alot and stick with them.

Oh yes, that too. I've found necros to be very useful in the Underworld and Fissure areas as well.

Sandman Uk · Jul 13, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

AMnon stick with it. I have just started a Necro/Monk. Having completed game with a Warrior.Elementist i was bored and started over. By far my Necro is becoming more powerfull at lvl 16 than my Elite Warrior with 75K armour thats fully runed up. Two good Necros working together on a team can win any mission.

Fiss and Uw are new areas and not really that well explored especially on the Euro side of the game. I used to recruit Monks and Warriors for UW till I realised what Rangers with traps could do. Necros just need to get a few in there so the teams can see how well they can perform.

Stick with it because its the best build and most fun to play

Plus all our gold items and Superior runes we can buy for peanuts because nobodys buying them

"Come on my Army of minions ATTACK Muhhahahaha"

crazy diamond · Jul 13, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I forget where, but I remember reading somewhare about a lvl 14 necro who ascended, without being rushed by anyone.

He was a very good player. He basicaly led the teams himself and won over the higher leveled players he was grouped with.

JoDiamonds · Jul 13, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Necros rock in PvE for sure, and sometimes in PvP, too. I strongly prefer there be at least one Necromancer in any group I'm playing with -- there's all those dead bodies, someone should use them.

I don't think Necros get nearly the shaft that Mesmers get in PvE. Rangers aren't high on the pick list, either. There's been times it feels like the game could just be Warriors, Elementalists, and Monks, and the other classes are just extras, hanging out.

But they are all good. Necromancers ... yeah, I like them a lot. Good for soloing.

borkbork · Jul 13, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Strange. I ALWAYS see an opposing necro on the other team in Tombs.. racing each other to exploit the corpses. Don't go with blind invite pugs in Tombs.. usually big failure results and most pugs don't know what necros do anyways.

For general PvE, just go Necro/Monk, pump up your death magic, raise a ton of bone minions and keep them alive with verata's sacrifice/heal area.

Who needs people when you've got your own minions!?

For Fissure of Woe and especially UW, advertise the fact that you can bring Well of Profane to knock out enchantments on smiters. I've definitely seen people asking for necros in ToA, so maybe you were just on at a wrong time. My primary char is a Me/N and I get into groups by advertising the fact that I can bring Blood is Power / Well of Power / Well of profane / any necro skills / whatever shutdown mesmers use.

bobrath · Jul 13, 2005, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Holy Mother of all that is unholy.

I'm a primary healer monk (secondary is unused right now and its a ranger). My *best* friend is the necro that joins any team I'm on. He has so many skills that make me so much more effective.

Blood Ritual, Blood is Power can help me get back in the fight.
Well of Power makes every caster happy happy happy.
Well of Blood on the tanks first kill can make them a much less priority for my healing time. Heck combine it with my healing seed and those tanks are golden baby!

A competent necromancer can make every single person in his team far more effective. Teams passing up on you are just making their lives tougher.

Aniewiel · Jul 13, 2005, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

Holy Mother of all that is unholy.

I'm a primary healer monk (secondary is unused right now and its a ranger). My *best* friend is the necro that joins any team I'm on. He has so many skills that make me so much more effective.

Blood Ritual, Blood is Power can help me get back in the fight.
Well of Power makes every caster happy happy happy.
Well of Blood on the tanks first kill can make them a much less priority for my healing time. Heck combine it with my healing seed and those tanks are golden baby!

A competent necromancer can make every single person in his team far more effective. Teams passing up on you are just making their lives tougher.

I couldn't have said it better. The BEST teams I've been on have had a necro on them. In fact, if I join a PUG that isn't filled out yet, I BEG for 1) A necro and 2) a mesmer.

toastgodsupreme · Jul 13, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Thing is, MANY people have never partied with Claude. I swear by bringing Claude on any thing I run usually. Hell, before I teamed with Claude, i never even used blood ritual on my own necro. But after I saw the results, I was impressed and added it to my own build.

Many people see necros and go "We don't need minions". That's the problem. If you're a necro, you MUST raise minions, right?

A lot of people just don't know about the hidden potential a necro holds. My necro is N/Mo. I'm a healer's assistant. Curses, Blood, and healing. Curses for protecting the team (weakness, shadow of fear, things like that), blood for BiP and Blood Ritual. Healing for self heals and when the primary healer needs extra support or he/she himself needs to be healed (self healing for monks is less energy effective than healing others).

bobrath · Jul 13, 2005, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Just an addition to my previous post, but the one person I am alawys sure to keep alive and "over heal" is my necro. Throwing him a Breeze when he hits me with extra nrg regen is just being kind but also keeping my bestest buddy happy.

I was running FoW the other night and at the start I told the necro, "if I ctrl-click my nrg, please hit me with Blood Ritual". He said "np, casters same for you if you want" and off we went. It was amazing that after the first fight the two Es said something to the effect of "omg you are amazing". I was a little sad to see the necro not hanging out next to me for the rest of the mission as it seemed the Es just ate up energy. Course I also enjoyed the massive rapid body count that ensued (and none of those bodies were mine).

CaptainGuru · Jul 13, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnon

I spent 2 hours today trying to find a group for Fissure or HoH (Moving back and forth between districts, even international ones), and nada. And it's not because I'm some type of "n00b" or simply suck at the game (I don't), it's because of my class.

Even the other forums have made mention of this. One of the reason this community is bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnon

The way I see it, Guild Wars can advertise itself as having only 5 (4?) classes, because Necromancers (And sometimes mesmers, but mainly necros) are treated by the community like air, only if you take someone's air away they'll complain but not if you deprive them of a good necromancer.

Rangers and Necromancers normally get ignored more than mesmer, especially in pvp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnon

I've tried creating a new PvE character, but I find it sooooo extremely boring doing the same quests all over again, and I can't bring myself to do more than 2 a day.

Thank you, I knew I wasn't the only one who felt this way.

PieXags · Jul 13, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Necromancers, Mesmers, and sometimes (but rarely) rangers are often looked upon as "optional" characters for a group. Rangers usually don't have a problem, especially with UW/Fissure because of their traps, but elsewhere they're sometimes overlooked. I'll focus on Memsers and Necromancers though.

The problem with necromancers and memsers is that they work in the background, they might have some pretty wicked magic but they work with it behind the scenes, while the tanks are up there taking hits and the elementalists are nuking, you obviously notice them a lot. Elementists magic is most often direct damage (usually with a cool affect that MAKES you notice as well) and warriors can't be ignored the way they run up first, monks obviously are necessary in a party (...usually) and they always get noticed by the warriors who're getting hurt. These three classes are noticed most. Rangers also sort of fit into this category because their traps and other skills are pretty noticable.

Where as these characters all work directly and do a certain job, mesmers and necromancers are much more about working on a different sense, they don't just go out and do damage they're typically your background support characters, and the damage they deal isn't often noticed because it's either enemy-action dependant or it's DoT. For necromancers the only skills that people actually SEE are wells and animated minions being summoned.

Little do other people know, a good necromancer (or mesmer) can definately change the tide of any battle. I remember our group was having loads of trouble with Elona Reach until I brought my necromancer along where we did it our first time trying. See necros and mesmers just...go through the battles and pull their strings when they see the right moments, they work their magic on a behind-the-scenes level. Mesmers are the same way, except they've usually got a set job and people know what they do.

I would honestly have to say that out of all the classes in GW, Necromancers are hardest to play well. I've gone through the game with every profession now and my necromancer has been hardest to master.

I've changed my necros secondary profession 5 times just trying to find out the best build! My mesmer---not a problem to get good with, he was my first character I went through the game with and never did I have a problem figuring out a good build and using those skills to their best benefits. My ranger, not a problem either, a simple mass-condition OR mass-damage build was all it took, not a big deal. Warrior? Also simple, I could go many ways with that guy, could go with an aftershock warrior, a warrior with some helpful smiting, whatever I wanted, people always needed a good tank. Monk? Heal, protect, simple enough. Never had a problem unless some dumbass went off out of my range.

But the necromancer...just what could I do? A N/W was a possibility but the time it took to get off certain hexes on a warrior to take him down kinda sucked, and it was difficult to fend off more than one warrior at a time, not only was your armor not as good but the monks on your team wouldn't ever bother to heal you, the lowly necromancer. A simple DoT build? Meh...not all that great, DoTs are alright if you can always keep them going but a good healing breeze can nearly stop a max health degeneration if not stop it entirely. Curses? Well..., sure it's great to weaken, slow the attack of, and give -20 armor to a warrior...but then who will kill it? Warriors aren't often the first ones to be attacked, and since you can't likely do it yourself that's a no-go. Death magic summons? Good for PvE in a sense, but they don't work against anything that doesn't leave a fleshy corpse often leaving you short handed, and to keep a good army going it takes up almost your entire skill bar. And something that dependant on enemy corpses is too reliant on something other than your own skill. Blood magic? Pretty good...but finding the right skills from your secondary or other necro lines to mix it with is the problem, blood on its own is pretty easily countered.

Sure some of things I listed above work alright, but they aren't NECESSARY (at least as seen by most people) in a group unless you spam all your wells to help THEM do the work. They have to kill the monsters, they need the health/energy, all you do is...put up the wells, and their happy. And wells are the only sort of skill they'll even know you're using.

It's a shame, really. Necromancers are a tough class to master, and there are A LOT of necromancers out there who're pretty...dumb, and just don't play their professions very effectively. This spreading the generalization that necros are an "optional" class.

Someone who can pull off a great combination with a necromancer is a damn good player in himself (herself), and should always be looked upon as a valuable asset to any team.

People don't know of the necromancer's true abilities until they've really tried to master one themself, and that's the bad part, because when they do try they can't often pull it off well...so people think they're bad.

Go necromancers!

Amnon · Jul 13, 2005, 10:06 PM // 22:06

I must say that you've restored my hope in the GW playerbase. I have to admit, I was pretty sure most of the responses would have been more like the ones I heard when I last argued with a group about why they were "letting me go" (Necros are useless, etc etc), but the stories you've just shared will definately help me and hopefully the Necromancer community in Guild Wars.

Thanks again.

PieXags · Jul 13, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Sweet, another good necromancer mind saved from the tyranny of the doubtful majority!

Also, something I forgot to add...in PvP. Well, have I ever been screwed over by one good ranger? Maybe once. Have I ever been screwed over by one good monk? No, you need a team of those really. Have I ever been raped by just ONE elementist? Can't say I have, honestly, takes a team of them to murder me in half a second.

Half I ever been completely anhillated by a single necromancer, or a single mesmer? YES. And it's from these experiences that I've tried to make my necromancer from. I can't tell you the number of times I've thought I was invinsible...and then I look up in the corner of my screen to see 8 hexes all screwing everything I do. I'm weakened, I can't attack at all, I've got a high health degen...what??? Now my skills are interrupted? What the hell is going on?!

*searches around*

...a single N/Me...GREAT...

It can be devestating once you get the hang of it, and slowly but surely people are noticing just how useful support characters can be.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jul 13, 2005, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Amnon,

Read your post, started to feel bad for you and then I had a sudden thought:
Is your character's name really "Nine Eighteen?"

Please take the following constructively:
If you want to do all the "serious" things in the game and be taken as a "serious" player, your name is a direct reflection of your intent, maturity, and character. - or complete lack of.

Naming yourself, "I like Pie", "Lick my taint" ad infinitum, not only bars you from getting into groups with people demonstrating brain activity, most often they will flee a group with a person of such a name in it.
To put it bluntly, If you are not a moron, don't use a moronic name.

Occams razor my friend - the most obvious, simple solution is generally the correct one. If you cannot find a good fantasy name, even "Bob the Rabbit" is better than "Nine Eighteen"

. . . Unless of course you're playing Star Trek online...

Talesin

PieXags · Jul 13, 2005, 11:59 PM // 23:59

...you sure as hell better not be insulting anything to do with pie is all I can say.

(On a more serious note, a serious name is ...KINDA...a relfect on your personality. If anyone for example thing "PieXags" is a horrible non-serious name, they can go bite themselves 'cause I'll have everyone know that PieXags is a name of great importance with a lot of history behind it. Nine Eighteen isn't that bad a name really though, so I don't see that much of a problem there. I often name characters "ThirtyThree" or something of the sort because I enjoy double numbers like that.)

People shouldn't judge someone by their name, hell sometimes I turn people away with names like "Alexin Aerion" because I sit there and think...wow...he's REALLY into this sort of thing, I'll take someone a bit more down to earth thanks.

Names shouldn't have anything to do with it really...well, unless you're like this one guy who's name I found was "Quik E", then you can say it's your name, otherwise not really.

Amnon · Jul 14, 2005, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Heh, I understand why people would get ditched cause of their names, but I never thought a name such as mine would cause any problems with anyone. Besides, it's my birthday :P